(and no I’m not talking about Sunday Papers or Richard – just the church in general and me (Mark) in particular)

Is it because: We comfort ourselves with thoughts that we don’t “sin” much – so therefore we forget what doing wrong feels like (not because we aren’t doing wrong, but because we kid ourselves that we aren’t). So now, we have forgotten what it feels like to do wrong and we can’t imagine what it feels like for people who know that they are doing wrong – in fact, we forget that there are My Blueberry Nights dvdrip

The Prince of Tides A Merchants of Venus (aka Dirty Little Business) movies A Nightmare on Elm Street move Patton movies people who believe that they are doing wrong!

So we have forgotten how to address people who are aware of their wrongdoing. We can’t imagine what to say to people who are aware of their wrongdoing because we’ve forgotten what it feels like to be a wrongdoer.

There are people out there who know that they do wrong and know that they want out of it, but (very) unfortunately we’ve forgotten what to say to them because we’ve forgotten what it feels like to do wrong (because we kid ourselves that we don’t do much wrong).

I experienced this with a friend just the other day – he knew he was doing wrong, but I just didn’t relate to it. I let him down.

I need to put myself on a programme that reminds me how wrong I am so much of the time and at the same time reminds me of the basics of what Jesus has done for people like me – because it seems that I’ve forgotten. After all, if I’ve forgotten how wrong I am then I’m forgetting how much Jesus wants to, and can, help us.

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over in Portsmouth is kicking off some conversations in a pub and using the COE process. I loved his down to earth approach and to find fellow minded people that have the courage to say this is my church

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to a bunch of vague accquaintances in a pub. Great stuff MarkThe Hazing hd

great follow up post from

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Richard emailed me a link to Pete Rollins’ latest blog post:
http://peterrollins.net/blog/?p=44

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So I had to comment in support:
I very much agree with what you say Pete. My approach is that I go along on a Sunday morning to ‘church’ because I want to have contact with people who believe (pretty much) the same stuff as me. I do not support the singing, preaching, sound system, car parking, etc. because I pretty much entirely disagree with the grip that Sunday morning services have on church and indeed disagree with what actually happens on a Sunday morning.

I’d been encouraged not to cooperate partly by Steve Chalke when he basically said not to support the status quo at your church if you didn’t agree with it, when he was speaking at Spring Harvest a number of years ago!!!

However, I think that cutting myself off from the established church would not help change happen. I guess it is the church renewal v. church planting argument at this point. I choose to not abandon my brothers and sisters. So I do feel subjectively connected to the people (which is the church), but I do not feel subjectively connected to the ’service’ activity (which is not the church after all).

I was thinking about the close proximity in the bible text between when Jesus says to Peter he will be the rock on which church is built and Jesus’ rebuke of Peter for thinking in the ways of man. Matt 16 13-23

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,[1] the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”

How easy it is for our versions or visions of church when we have in mind the things of man or woman rather than the things of God to become a stumbling block to Christ.

One of the young people lent us a new worship song compliation. After some hesitancy I thought I would give it a go. I thought I know it is not my cup of tea but I should have a listen with an open mind.
It was good to hear one song that was focussed on justice and mercy in the refrain but the rest was very samey, in terms of style and language, do these people listen to westlife all day. I gave it a go but I just dont get it, the young person who gave it me would not spend all day listening to westlife or singing their stuff but to me the sound and the structure seems so similar to many of their recent tracks even down to the key changes. (opps i have just admitted listening to westlife in my defence this is because i spend a lot of time inthe car with radio two on – which i dont mind admitting I listen to)

Maybe Westlife are more cutting edge than I gave them credit for!333999

I was thinking about the close proximity in the bible text between when Jesus says to Peter he is the rock on which He will build the church and Jesus’ rebuke to Peter for thinking of the ways of man not God. Matt 16 v13-23

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”

How easy it is for our human visions and versions of church to have in mind the things of men or women and not in mind the things of God and so become a stumbling block on the path to Christ.In Her Shoes buy Autumn move Trainwreck: My Life as an Idiot ipod

Mark has posted some great thoughts about being church and living shalom here Since coming to faith I have been committed to shalom and really it was as I explored and tried to live out a falteringly shalom lifestyle that I was drawn more and more into community mission and where we are now of Church on the edge, trying to grow church fom scratch with marginalised young people.

The community of God… will be a community that does not live for itself but is deeply involved in the concerns of its neighborhood. It will be the church for the specific place where it lives, not the church for those who wish to be members of it – or, rather, it will be for them insofar as they are willing to be for the wider community.
The Gospel in a pluralist society Leslie Newbiggin

Yet doing church from scratch confilcts in some ways with the need for us to become powerless, as we draw others into ur community who are not at the same place maintaining this call to be a community that does not live for itself becomes harder to maintain. Recently we have had a couple of conversations with the young people about our relatioships with other young people in the community. They are wary, guarded aybe even jealous yet they are part of the community we serve. As we leave at the end of the month to take a group on skate pilgrimage and rite of passage

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and they enter more into our community is this a serving the wider communitysomething we need to ensure we hold a non negotiable, even though they are committing to christ, but to explore.

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